Saint Lucia carnival has gotten too “vulgar” and indiscreet – and some agree with Dr. Franklin-Brown

By SNO Staff

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(SNO) – Sociologist Dr. Greta Franklin-Brown came under harsh criticism recently on social media when she opined in a DBS report that Saint Lucia’s carnival is not the way it used to be: the vulgarity has gone to new levels with females parading the streets half-naked in front of their parents, children, grandchildren, clients and colleagues.

The British-trained Saint Lucian educator noted that the costumes were skimpier than previous years and advertisements nowadays tout half-naked women, which shows how low the standards have become.

And she fears the situation will only get worse and continues to set up females for harassment from men.

“In my opinion, how would you want to be taken seriously in your profession, when I am going to see you on the streets enjoying yourself,” said Dr. Franklin-Brown, who is originally from La Clery, Castries but left Saint Lucia in 1988 to study in Britain.

“I have no issues with you enjoying yourself, but what’s gonna stay in my mind is the fact that you were scantily dressed and performing, you know, kind of vulgarity dancing on the streets. And I think we need to be very much aware of how we are seen. So it’s about perception. What kind of image as a professional woman you are giving to someone who, a layman on the street who may want to come to you and seek advice. I think we need to be very wary of that kind of thing we do,” she added.

Dr. Franklin-Brown is a gender specialist, particularly in female studies. She has achieved a bachelor’s and master’s degrees from Oxford Brooken University in women’s studies before doing her PhD at South Bank University in the sociology of education, focusing on black women in the United Kingdom born to Caribbean parents.

So this is no surprise that the media approached her to comment on the ‘vulgarity’ of Saint Lucia carnival.

And she has more to say: parents gyrating half-naked are not setting an example for their children and the younger generation. She has therefore called up on women to be more responsible and set a better example.

“In terms of young people seeing, perhaps, let’s say, for example, their parents on the street, again, scantily dressed, behaving in that kind of manner, it doesn’t signal a good impression. If we look at the terms of, you know, the old wife’s tale of ‘do what I say, not what I [do]’, you know you have to be very careful, you know. So if my son sees me on the street, behaving in that manner, it doesn’t actually set a good example to him.”

The backlash to her comments were harsh, just to put it mildly. Majority of persons who responded, insulted her, called her names, and told her she is actually anti-feminist.

However, there were about nine persons who agreed with her. And some of them were men.

Here is what they had to say:

Octaviu Mathurin Point and I think it should be considered by women.

Sunshine Russell Good point shitty excuse that’s its carnival. Them women dancing like they in heat and naked. Tomorrow they teaching our kids. Carnival my ass choops tan. Lucians lost sight of their culture already

Freedom Rain Wilson So because it’s carnival they have to get on like that?🤷🏾‍♀️..no decent woman would disagree with her statement..you can dance and enjoy yourself without all that vulgarity..literary porn sex dancing🤷🏾‍♀️

Sista Masika This generation don’t care about self respect or damn morals. This apart of the culture my got damn ass. Wonder why so many women out here pregnant yet begging for respect.

Lerock Lucus Lesporis Soon or later with their sicknesses on facebook they will try to get a man or husband full all their body with glue and paint,but men are not foolish anymore…ok…

Bertille Maloney OMG listen to these comments. ‘One life to live’, ‘stagnant mind’, ‘it’s only carnival’. Good thing I don’t care how people deport themselves in public. I love to see a pretty girl exposing her sexy body on the streets just as much as the next guy, although I see some very ugly women with slabs for body exposing even more than some pretty girls 😂🤣… bash me if you want for saying that. But what I do know is I’m not at all interested in marrying a woman to be my baby mother, and work hard to build a life with, only for her to hit the streets and show off her punany to the world like it’s just another day at the office.

Anthony Cornibert IM ALL FOR PEOPLE DOING AS THEY PLEASE!! TRUTH IS IM A GUY WHO OVER THE YEARS HAVE GROWN AWAY FORM THE SAME STUFF EVERY YEAR AS IT RELATES TO CARNIVAL. iLL BE HONEST THOUGH, I HAVE TO AGREE WITH DR.BROWN. TO THIS DAY I HAVE SEEN WOMEN GET ON LITERALLY LIKE “BITCHES” IN HEAT AND HAVE NEVER FORGOTTEN ONE FACE, HENCE MY PERCEPTION OF THEM HAVE REMAINED AS THAT OF SLACKERS. FURTHERMORE THERE IS NO WAY IN HELL I WOULD EVER EVEEEERRR GET FRIENDLY TO A WOMAN WHO JUMPS. AND NO, IM NO SEVEN DAYS:;;!!!! JUST POINTING OUT HOW I IS FOR SOME OF US AVERAGE GUYS OUT THERE. THE TYPICAL GUY WOULD HAVE FUN WITH YOURL BUT MARRY A REAL WOMAN!!

Assád Abdul-Majid I remember watching family members performing during carnival sadly there’s a big difference now we cant honestly say that they way the younger generation has been carrying the torch with proud tradition

But what about the men? At least three persons including this one, made this observation:

Wahnah Amana I find it very interesting that she did not comment at all about how being scantily clad and dancing with vulgarity affects the professional perception of MEN. She seems to presume that it’s ok for half naked men to dance vulgarly at carnival but not professional women yet she claims to be a feminist.

Now in light of Dr. Franklin-Brown’s comments do we expect less vulgarity at Carnival 2019?

(31)(11)
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45 comments

  1. Whatever aesthetic qualities in the costumes and the choreography, the imitation of bonobos sexualised greetings culture make carnivals trashy and smutty. When one bonobo primate meets another they greet by taking it in turn to thrust their genitals against each other’s rump. Males greet males in that fashion; grandparents greet young bonobos in that manner. Low status bonobos bare their rumps in anticipation of genital thrusting. It is their way of saying how do you do and more - that’s cool. Somehow this does not translate well as a human culture even for carnival where supposedly everything goes.

    This sexually explicit behaviour of adults(even with clothes on) do not conform to public decency and should not be given media or TV coverage that way the image and reputation of Lucian women in general is safeguarded. Men are freer in sexual expression and do not have a reputation to salvage.

    (0)(2)
  2. Dr. Franklin-Brown,

    To be honest I'm quite disappointed in Dr. Franklin-Brown article as an educator she should've been able to see the whole aspect of modern day society and within the liberty and also being a feminist.
    there's a few things I wanna highlight first of all she comes across as a female who is highly educated but also highly privileged. She could've never written an article about Notting Hill carnival and talk about women expressing and dressing indecently.
    she used her privileged to infiltrate her ignorance is into the community why don't she write the same article for the Daily Mail regarding Notting Hill carnival because she wouldn't be allowed to in England.
    this woman fully understands what it means to be a black woman also what makes us feel empowered is different for everyone. But for me carnival jumping on the road leaving all my worries behind wearing a two piece makes me feel empowered and motivated I am not harming no one I'm not asking no one's husband to pay for my costume i'm fully independent I have a full-time job I'm extremely educated but what I don't want to do is put down my black sisters down or question their worth because the rest of the world is good at that and that's the energy I got from this article.
    So this article is actually quite dangerous and it targets black St Lucian women in A very negative light it separates and devalues us as women because this open the narrative where women can also disrespect and put other women down and that's not what we supposed to be doing as black women.

    (5)(13)
    • The public in the West are not subjected on TV or newspapers to women baring their behinds such images stay on the media cutting floor for public decency sake!

      (0)(0)
      • I live in London and yes millions of people a year come to carinval in London and no one cares what u wear how u dance it's about fun and embracing us as people. They show carinval on London live it's a TV channel
        No body cares

        (1)(1)
        • What is shown is sanitized; you do not get an eye full of women planting their backsides in the air or humping like bonobos! The highlights seen are elaborate costumes (many are very skimpy and revealing), gyrating dancing even good nature enticement of police security to dance. All good humoured.

          Some women see sexually explicit behaviour as liberating, if people want to be party to this they take to the road. Their behaviour is not televised or photographed for public consumption – unless for porn sites and self-selecting audience. The reputation of women in carnival in general is positively presented and maintained. Some carnival revellers use public transport to return home and maintain decency in dress and behaviour.

          Is this humping like bonobos a feminist expression that women are not sexually passive but sexual initiators? Carnival is an essential avenue for expression even defiance but there still should be decorum -the street is not the bedroom where such intimate behaviour takes place. The public at large including children should not be subjected to excesses of a minority.

          (0)(0)
  3. Lol morals? What morals? We have lost our morality way before women and men started jumping carnival with skimpy outfits. Let's take a look at parliament and the house let's talk about corruption in politics let's talk about dirty lawyers and doctors. Start from the head then we can look at carnival. Once some ppl have a Phd they become better than all. Freedom of expression. If you don't like it keep away from carnival.

    For this woman to say this promotes sexual harassment shows how low she is. Are you teaching us that if we see a woman waking the streets in a short dress to grab her ass? Woman you a fool.

    (4)(5)
  4. This is some of the best journalism SNL has ever done. Pulitzer shit. Keep up the good work !!!!

    (1)(1)
  5. Hello Ms East London, the issue is not about ignorance, hypocrisy, or religion, abuse from men, domestic violence, ECT it's about the revealing dress code. Someone can jump up and have fun till he or she drops and not dress like that. When some of us as women dress like what i see on the image shown how do we expert a man with no regards to women think twice before the disrespectful behavior come to play? If you can show me 3 men who are dress so revealing then I'll plead the 5th.

    (9)(3)
    • Hello Truth

      Ok let's talk about dress code at carinval ? I'm a lil confussed to what is the appropriate dress code should be.
      Because obviously it's always women who are being targeted and because we wear two pieces of a though it makes us less respectable and excepted in society.
      I jump every year with a two piece and I'm from London I work hard I'm a respectable young lady but for two days of the year I go back to my parents motherland to have a good time. I have never seen anyone have sex on the road or do anything indecent like taking off their or attacking a female.
      But when I'm in the local community and it's not carinval I have seen women who are full dress been attacked sexually harassed and they have done nothing wrong.
      So the issue at hand is why can't a woman wear what she likes and nnot be called names ?
      So it is a hypocrite issue its also a sexist issue it's also an issue for gender inequality because women are not treated equal we seen that if we dress in a certain way we are inviting a man to molesters us when actually that same male should know boundaries.
      Stop blaming women for men's bad behaviour also our Carnival is a lot more tamed than Trinidad and Tobago Antigua grenade and barbados.
      Why don't you guys address Mercury Beach ?

      (2)(10)
      • Hilarious much? You should sit and read your comments again. You are being critical of the good Dr you claimed not seeing the whole picture? I think you are the one not seeing the big picture. You think you are a modern thinker? You are nothing less than a sheep following in the footsteps of fools.

        Our culture, our moral compass is headed for a free fall. We can hardly identify ourselves any more because we are too busy trying to be like our colonilizers. It is not about feminism, men or whatever excuse you are trying to give. It is about our small patch of land we call, Hellen. We want to preserve our culture. We want our Queens to be respected, but first they must respect themselves. Respect is earned. Please stick to your keep your opinions to yourself, we don't want you telling us how to lead our lives. Clearly you are Saint Lucian who has become Brit and is a sheep.

        (1)(2)
        • Sorry luv sooooooo my whole life visiting St Lucia did I miss something
          I'm sure again how many women I have seen bending over in a fight showing there backside
          Where they not Lucian grown women
          Please
          St Lucian have to remember in fights we see it all
          That Doctor said whatever and u ran with it that doctor is more western then me but u embrace her rubbish kmt

          (0)(2)
      • ,sending mix messages to men ,when they are swefer than women. calling shit on themselves

        (0)(0)
  6. Pure nastyness what happened to wearing a short's to jump up.miss east London the person that bend forward looks just like you.wow..ent that a shame.leave something to the imagination.thats just nasty..thats jow i see it.

    (5)(5)
    • Ok so thank you for trying to offend me that shows your maturity and your IQ level for an adult but anyway clearly you are the purist person and maybe a virgin who maybe has no experiences regarding sexual expression.
      And you are right maybe I can be that female who is bending over on the streets at carnival dancing but I'm happy and also it wasn't your husband you pay for my costume. So what's the issue I have a feeling that u would like to bending over too my lady.
      Ignorance is deafening bliss because many of times I have seen St Lucian women arguing with other women and bending over and showing their backside in the community in front of the children are you one of them ?

      (4)(7)
  7. I totally agree with this woman u don't have to do nastiness with yourself so u can have fun u don't have to go naked for you to have fun to me canival should be about more culture like it doesn't matter if it's one life to Liv u musttry to live it right and there is another life apart from that life on earth some times the ppl of St Lucia disgust me no respect for yourself and for your children

    (12)(2)
    • Supporter of Dr. Franklin-Brown

      We must strike a balance between having a good time and going overboard. Going overboard is very subjective and to some nothing that happens at carnival will ever be considered as going overboard.

      (8)(4)
  8. what happen to a time and place for everything....smfh why dont urll high moral ppl in society that judging ppl living their life spending their money to preach that Mr Raymond for indecency exposure. no one not even priest came to talk about it

    (3)(12)
    • Retard. Your argument is pointless. You sound of one of the perpetrators of such indecent acts. I hope you dont have kids or ever reproduce.

      (3)(8)
    • What you r saying is right these boring St Lucian don't worry with them

      (3)(5)
      • Because we don't accept your bs mentality we are boring? Keep your hoeing ass in London, miss I 'm a feminist. " We don't like your kind.

        (0)(1)
        • Lady if I'm a hoe so r u because I'm sure u have slept with more men and people's husband than me
          So u can have a mature talk without being rude
          I don't go down to people's level but this is what I'm saying stoping acting like u r any better because u r not

          (1)(0)
  9. I don't say women cannot enjoy themselves but nothing this way where the bend down and you can see you know what. It is very disrespectfull and embarrassing as a woman. I used to jump carnival and it was not like this at all. Both your front atlldn our back would be covered but not not own, there is no to work covering at all. I don't when enjoy watching it because of the way women behave on the streets.am digusted

    (17)(4)
  10. We have quickly lost the value of self respect. We don't go on everyday just walking the streets this way but we have given carnival our blessing for some one to go on exposed and bending over showing where the sun does not shine. Then tomorrow we want a level of respect given to us from the public. If you show the respect to your self you will get it back...just saying

    (23)(3)
    • But why can't women for one day of the year where what they want since when St Lucia become The central Vatican headquarters.
      It's not about what u wear or how u dance it's about what's in someone heart
      ST LUCIA are hypocrites when it comes to pointing fingers
      Very good for minding peoples business
      If I don't like carnival don't watch it and don't go
      It's sad to see and read this comments towards women's liberty and women's rights
      We can wear what we like that should be allowed

      (9)(24)
      • You speak like someone who is completely ignorant of how societal effects on peers and the younger generation. What exactly does a lack of respect for oneself and decency have to with with Women's Liberty and rights?
        I really do hope that you are not a teacher cause you would really mess up the young minds in your care.

        (17)(8)
        • I'm far from ignorant
          But coming from a Country that has immense social issues when it comes to women's liberty. Remember sexual violence does not only happen twice a year at carnival it happens all the time and it's something that goes on notice in the St Lucian Society.
          St Lucia has bigger issues than carnival love, domestic violence against women is a massive issue within the culture why talk it a festival that happens for two days out of the year and then blame the festival on indecent exposure.
          Where is the articles regarding mothers family members allowing little girls to date older men for financial gain. Talk about that ?

          (4)(14)
        • And I hope u r not a MP or anything to do with young people because u r clearly blinded from reality value start from the home not in the classroom if you install values and self-respect in your children then you should have no worries. Carnival does not kill communities ignorant does

          (5)(11)
  11. A few things to say here. One, it does not matter if you show your titties or panties. For me personally, it is not my preference to "wine and go down" like that in the middle of the street. But thats just me. I think if men or women do their jobs properly then that will usually speak for itself rather than them being judged by what they had on the day before. Two, sexual harassment at the work place is very real and continuous in St. Lucia. Men seem to think that it is okay to ask a woman to sleep with them when she is working with them. Or some go as far as spreading outright lies to damage the woman's reputation who has shown that she will not sleep with them. Those who are "educated" are even more guilty of the behaviour than those who are not. Women have left the work place on account of harassment by men here. Three, I am more concerned about the number of real problems that we have than people being at carnival. So let me list them; babies being born out of wedlock,and fathers not feeding them or not being there, the promiscuity of old and young and the spread of STDS, the crisis of young black men killing each other for a dollar or nothing, a justice system not functioning and healthcare not being a priority. Finally, corruption and crime at the lowest and highest levels in our society. These are real issues.

    (9)(4)
    • Amen u tell them they are to quick to judge people without talking about the real issues at hand

      (3)(7)
    • I agree the issue at hand is not being address St Lucia has really issues lol
      No let's blame carnival
      I don't think sooooooooo
      I do carnival and I got told no decent woman jumps carnival I told the person well I must not be decent lol

      (4)(4)
    • You brought out outstanding issues which are plaguing our society but that's for another dat. The issue at hand is public indecency which in fact can lead to all the above.

      (7)(0)
      • Define Public indecency in order for people to understand what it means you have to experience it for me publicly indecency does not define two days of carnival where women nipples and frontal areas are covered up I have never seen on the road at carnival people having sex. My knowledge of public indecency is when I go to karaoke bars or normal bars and I have witnessed on a few occasions women selling sex or asking for drinks for sexual favours these women are half naked And the local men have paid these women to do sexual favours I have even seen outside a rum shop women naked or performing sexual acts on men.
        Is that not indecent public behaviour is this okay in society because their wife can't see them ?
        St Lucia has some real issues and focusing on a woman wearing a two-piece bending over is not the issue at hand.
        I have seen more indecent behaviour in Rum shops.

        (1)(4)
  12. Verse of the Day

    August 6

    Mark 11:25

    25 And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive them, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.”

    (3)(3)
    • You people need to stop with the nonsense its once a year people are enjoying themselves I don't see anything wrong life is short let people leave ....is not st .lucia alone they see it everywhere.

      (3)(10)
  13. I do not understand why people would defend vulgarity asif it is something good. But there you go....it is simply a break down of our morals over the years.We have become self fish and forgotten the key values taught during childhood.

    (15)(5)
  14. I really wish these people would stop and get a life they need to free up and stop their rubbish
    Let people enjoy them self honestly

    (14)(35)
    • And who said people must not enjoy themselves?

      (7)(4)
      • Well it seems that all of a sudden St Lucians are now the Vatican Central of the Caribbean.
        For me I think the article is a bit of a joke.
        Carnival happens all over the Caribbean but the ignorance I see St Lucian portray towards the carnival is absolutely absurd. compare to other Caribbean countries all of a sudden our moral standards are higher than anyone else considering the social issues this country is facing.
        I.E domestic abuse cases sexual abuse child abuse and so on and people would rather turn a blind eye to parents pimping their daughters to older men.
        But now want to have a say in the attitudes towards how people express themselves through carnival.
        It's called double standards and instead of supporting your amazing carnival and supporting women's liberty to wear what the hell they like it's embarrassing to read this article.
        Many St Lucian live on this high moral ground which is actually quite vindictive because no one is perfect and it's only for two days a year and it's not harming anyone only in the words of the critics and the Christian organisations who target anything to do with fun.
        Carnival is being more tourists to St Lucia and our Carnival is admired across the world. But the only people who seem to have an issue with it is the people who don't jump carnival.

        (3)(14)
        • No one ever say people can't enjoy themselves but pple can realy do it in a respectful manner. WHY HAVING FUN MUST BRING VIOLENCE OR NUDITY. One can see that ppl are loosing their mind and soul. no more values no more respect.
          Your'll are speaking about violence and sexual abuse, hmmm everything is tie together. If people had more respect for themselve and for others SLU wouldve be a better island with less violence murder rape babies without father....
          You can only blame urselves for wht SLU are today, befor we didnt have all these issues ppl wer had morales and selfrespect.
          PPL IN SLU doing imoral things is HAVING FUN, CURSING, NUDITY, FIGHTING, drinking, smoking.... IF U PPL DONT HAVE THT URLL CANT FEEL URSELVE urll feeling boring
          OPEN YOUR EYES A BIT LIFE IS COMING TO AN END. IMORALITY IS NOW URLL PPL MORALITY.
          i DO LIKE HAVE FUN BUT REALY NOT LIKE THAT ALL MY PARTS DONT NEED TO HAVE FUN ON THE STREETS. THERE IS A TIME AND PLACE FOR EVERY THING. NUDITY IS BEHIND DOORS NOT ON STREET.
          who ever think this is right to have fun such away is so deeply lost.

          (10)(1)
          • St Lucia and this social norm and how things used to be back in a day. I remember watching people grandmothers and mothers fighting and arguing and lifting up there skirts in an argument so where was the social norms and self-respect back in the day .

            (1)(6)
  15. Mind your funky business and don't come next time!

    (16)(28)
    • I agree stay at home watching people's business while there husband or wife is jumping with there side peace

      (7)(10)

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